In his college years, Ray Cragun sang bass for the Celebration Quartet. One Southern Gospel artist called this quartet “the best quartet that most people have never heard.” And when you consider that the rest of the lineup was Mark Dubbeld (tenor), Dan Coy (lead), Jeff Keaton (baritone), and Kim Keaton – now Kim Collingsworth – on piano, it’s not hard to see why. After 25 years of pastoring, he now sings with his family, The Craguns. His story is worth hearing!
Transcript
Daniel Mount
Welcome to Southern Gospel Journal. My name is Daniel Mount, and this evening I have the honor of being joined by Ray Cragun. How are you this evening?
Ray Cragun
I am fantastic, Daniel. Good to be with you.
Daniel Mount
Thank you! Likewise. So I’d love to start with talking about your background, where you grew up, and how you came to know the Lord.
Ray Cragun
Well, it was kind of hard not to know about the Lord in my growing up. I grew up in Indiana, Indianapolis area, Westfield, a little bit north of Indianapolis there. Came to know the Lord when I was about eight years old, actually.
It was, as I said, kind of hard not to know the Lord when I was growing up. We had revivals all around us, and my dad took us to all of them. His vacations were spent at camp meeting. And so I’m a church boy from the get-go. My mom and dad met at Bible college, so that kind of says a lot. But I was about eight years old when I came to know the Lord, and never regretted that.
Daniel Mount
Wonderful. Did you grow up around Southern Gospel, or was that something you discovered a little later in life?
Ray Cragun
You know, I grew up around music because my mom and dad were musical. They held revivals, and our family would sing. So singing, harmony, is something that I grew up with. But gospel music, especially Southern Gospel music, is something that I came to know later on. Actually, I have an interesting story. I don’t know if you want that right now, but okay.
Daniel Mount
Go for it!
Ray Cragun
I grew up not too far from Indianapolis, and the big gig in that area was Larry Orrell, his concerts that he promoted, and the one close to us was in Indianapolis at Murat Temple. And I remember, I grew up on a Bible college campus for the most part, and I remember all the kids, when a Larry Orrell concert was in town, all the kids would load up in the cars and then head down there, and it was a blast, you know. And a lot of Southern Gospel lovers that I was on campus there with.
But I grew up in a very conservative church, very conservative world when it came to the denominations and stuff that we were involved in. And if it wasn’t a part of our church, we just really didn’t have much to do with it, you know. It was that idea of carefulness, and I don’t regret my upbringing and I’m very thankful for that, but I do remember that was one thing that really frustrated me, as I’d watch all my friends go to the concerts and I wouldn’t be able to go.
But one day I was walking across campus, and there was an evangelist that would park his mobile home, an Airstream trailer, beside our house there on campus when he wasn’t out traveling. And he came out of his trailer, he saw me walking across campus, and he said, “Hey Ray,” he said, “I’m going to hear the Happy Goodman Family tonight at Murat Temple, and would you like to go?” I said, “Man, I would love to go, but I said, I know my dad ain’t gonna let me,” you know.
Daniel Mount
Mm-hmm.
Ray Cragun
And he said, “Well, if you want to go,” he said, “I’ll take care of your dad.” And he was a real – he was a big guy. He was not just heavy. He was a big man. And I’ll never forget, I watched him walk right over to our front door, knock on the door. My parents came to the door, and I watched my dad from a distance kind of stammer around. He didn’t know how to tell a preacher that my son can’t go with you to a concert, you know? [Laughter]
And so that was my first. I think it was J.D. Redmond and the Redeemers, the Gospel Servants, and the Happy Goodman Family. And wow, what a night. That was my first time to see Vestal and Johnny Cook do the duel, you know, “Looking for a City.” And I thought I’d died and gone to heaven, but yeah, that was my intro.
Daniel Mount
Mm-hmm. So that would have been mid to late 70s, based on Johnny Cook being there.
Ray Cragun
I think so. I’m bad with years. It would have definitely been the late 70s, I think.
Daniel Mount
Okay. Cool. So they would have already written, like, a lot of their biggest songs had already been written. They were probably singing them. So you probably got to hear “Who Am I,” “Had It Not Been,” those sorts of songs.
Ray Cragun
You know, I can’t remember. I think Rusty may have sang “Who Am I” that night.
Daniel Mount
Very neat. Well, the Happy Goodman Family is a very good introduction to seeing this kind of music in person.
Ray Cragun
It is. Great start.
Daniel Mount
Yeah, so you said you sang with your family, and I’d love to follow up on that. I assume that if you started as a kid, you probably didn’t start out singing bass. Do you know what part you sang roughly, and what ages you were singing with your family a lot?
Ray Cragun
I started singing with my family when I was very young. My dad actually had me on a reel-to-reel. The first song, I guess, that they ever got me to sing was “He Touched Me.” And I think I was around somewhere between two and three years old, you know. And I can go back and say I could carry a tune, at least, at that point.
When I sang with my family, I probably had an alto voice. I was pretty young, 10 years old, 12 years old. And singing bass, that didn’t come around until maybe when I was 14, 15. And I was singing in the Bible school choir, and I stood beside my sister singing alto, and it got to where I couldn’t reach the part anymore, and they moved me up to the tenor section. And it got to where I couldn’t even go a whole repertoire, you know, singing tenor. And eventually I got to the bass, and wow, that was fun!
Daniel Mount
Yeah. So you mentioned your family was really conservative. Did you largely sing hymns then? What were some of your favorite songs to sing, the songs your family loved to sing, that kind of thing back in those days?
Ray Cragun
Yeah, that’s an interesting question because my family actually sang a lot of the songs that were popular in the Southern Gospel world. I remember my parents would sing Naomi and the Sego Brothers songs and various people. We sang all types. I grew up in a church that, the old hymns, we grew up with a praise and worship hymnal, I guess I’ll just say that, which has a lot of testimony songs in it.
And I’m a little different when it comes to hymns today. Some people call hymns just gospel music. For me, hymns are “When I Survey the Wondrous Cross,” stuff like that. That’s what I could really truly consider hymns. Now, I do realize that eventually there’s a lot of gospel songs that legitimately graduate into the hymnal. And I guess that’s my opinion; but we sang a lot of gospel music.
Daniel Mount
Mm-hmm. You’re not the only one I’ve come across who has a perspective like that. Keith Getty of Keith and Kristin Getty, who wrote like “In Christ Alone” and “Power of the Cross” and some other really, really good modern hymns, is what he calls them – he was born and grew up in Northern Ireland and moved to the US in about 2010.
About the time he moved to the US, he held the opinion that it was the Isaac Watts hymns like “When I Survey the Wondrous Cross” and the John Newton hymns like “Amazing Grace” or “How Sweet the Name of Jesus Sounds,” and even the Charles Wesley hymns, the hymns of the 1700s – he was like, those are hymns. The songs of Fanny Crosby and Philip Bliss and Ira Sankey, those are gospel songs. He was like, those aren’t hymns.
Ray Cragun
Wow.
Daniel Mount
So he was like, Fanny Crosby songs, those late 1800 songs, they’re different. They’re a different era. They have a different feel to them. He was like, those are gospel songs. Those aren’t hymns. Now, over the last 15, 20 years, he’s changed his mind. And now he counts at least some of those as hymns also, but he strongly believed that back in the day. So I have come across that. He wouldn’t even go so far as to call “Blessed Assurance” or that era of song a hymn.
Ray Cragun
Okay. You know, even as I’m talking to you, I’m thinking through this. I don’t really know what the guidelines would be, what makes a hymn. I tend to think there are songs that have been around a while, songs that are tested. They weren’t just a whim or just a tune that was catchy, but it was something that really had meat to it and ministered to people repeatedly down through the years. And I would freely admit, you know, “Because He Lives” belongs in the hymnal, you know, and that’s within my lifetime, you know.
Daniel Mount
I agree. It’s very interesting; I love these little side discussions. They’re always fascinating. It is a very interesting question. But I do think that a song that’s made it past about three or four generations of singers and still is touching lives. And “Because He Lives” has now been around long enough that three or four generations of singers have sung it, and it’s still touching and moving people. My church used it as the closing hymn at our Easter service a couple days ago, as we record this.
Now you mentioned you grew up on the campus of a Bible college. Was that Union Bible College, the same one where you would later sing with the Celebration Quartet?
Ray Cragun
That’s a good one. Yes, actually. Back then it was called Union Bible Seminary. Probably didn’t really qualify to be a seminary. It was originally a Quaker school, and it was a Quaker school until right before I went there, and it became an independent school and had its origins all the way back to the Civil War, I think it was. But yeah.
Daniel Mount
Hmm. Your parents were then involved in the administration or leadership of the school?
Ray Cragun
No, actually, the Bible college they attended was in Frankfort, Indiana. It was called the Pilgrim Holiness Bible College, I think, something like that. I was in 12th grade in public school, and my dad just felt like I was not real strong with the influences around me, and decided he wanted to put me in a private school, a Christian school. And so he moved our whole family from Indianapolis up to Westfield, where Union Bible Seminary was at. And that’s where my journey there began.
Daniel Mount
Neat. What did you study there? You spent a number of years as a pastor – had you felt a call to pastor at that point? And, in your college years, did you study there with the intent of pastoral ministry?
Ray Cragun
I did, and that was the place where I personally attended. I went from there to pastoring, so yeah, it played a big role in my future years in pastoring. A lot of influences there.
Daniel Mount
Cool! So during your time there, you ended up being a part of a group that still sings periodically here and there called the Celebration Quartet. How did that group come about? And as part of that, were you there at the founding, or is that something that was already an established ministry of the college and at some point they asked you to come on and be part of it?
Ray Cragun
Yeah, there’s a lot of parts to that story. What we had in the Bible college was a public relations department. They would take music groups from the music department and send them out to represent the school. And if you made it into a quartet or a trio that was what they deemed good enough, you could travel that summer, and that summer’s travel would pay for your education, pay your school bill. And so it was something good for the school and something good for the student.
And so I was blessed to travel several summers, I think maybe four summers, for the Bible college. Traveled in several quartets and had a lot of fun. Actually, one group that we sang with, we got to go to Winchester, Indiana one night and be the opening group for the Blackwood Brothers. And I thought I’d died and gone to heaven, you know?
I fell in love with gospel music before this, but that night it was Ken Turner, Cecil, Jimmy, James was there as well, and Pat Hoffmaster was the tenor. But I’ll never forget, during intermission, James came up to me and he said, “You know,” he said, “you remind me a lot of our original bass singer, Bill Lyles,” I think maybe was his name. And he said, “I would like for you to come to our school of music. I think I could get you going in gospel music.”
And I’ll never forget, I went home and I told my parents because I was just so excited. And again, it kind of moved the conversation into that area that was outside of our denomination, our little church world. So it didn’t go very far, but it was kind of fun talking about it and thinking about it. I went on to pastor instead.
Daniel Mount
You know, I can actually see that comparison because there were some radio transcriptions and that kind of thing that they’ve reissued on CD through the years. I’ve heard a fair amount of what they did with Bill Lyles, and that is the style in which you sing. It is a similar vein. So I can see where James would make that connection. That’s a cool comparison.
So that quartet was a different group than Celebration Quartet.
Ray Cragun
That was a different group. Celebration got started…
I was already at the Bible school. It was struggling. It was looking for a leader. And I’ll never forget, they called a guy to come and be the president of the school. His name was James Keaton. And so we were all excited, you know, get this new president. He’s been in administration and other places and he’s going to make things happen, you know.
And of course, through him, I met my future wife, one of his daughters. Their oldest brother, Jimmy, actually was in one of the earlier quartets that I sang with. Very good singer, awesome singer.
Celebration actually came about later. It was a high school quartet. I was not a part of it. I was working in public relations with the school, and they were a quartet that had already been formed. It was Mark Dubbeld, many people may know him with the Dubbeld family. Kim Collingsworth was the piano player, and Jeff Keaton, my brother-in-law, was the baritone, and Dan Coy, somebody who’s been in pastoral work most of his life. But he was a great lead singer. He was our lead singer. And that’s what comprised Celebration Quartet.
Originally, the bass singer was a fellow by the name of Steve. But they said, “Hey, we want to send this group out this summer. Steve can’t travel.” So I was the oldest and I was already in public relations there, and they said, “We want you to sing bass with them and travel.” And so that’s how Celebration Quartet got started. And we traveled. Eventually everybody graduated and we kept on singing for a while, you know. I think probably the highlight of our career was opening one night for the Cathedral Quartet in Muncie, Indiana, I think it was. And so we had some good times.
Daniel Mount
I heard a story secondhand, and I’d love to hear it from you, firsthand, that at that concert George Younce noticed Kim’s piano skills and said some really complimentary things about that. That was one of the notes I had – I’d love to hear what he noticed, when Kim was a teenager, what he saw in her piano skills.
Ray Cragun
Yeah, most people did. It was funny. Going back before that concert, we would sing and we would do most of our repertoire, and then they’d have an offering for the Bible college at the end. Kim, back then was 12, 13 years old. She was just a girl, you know? But a lot of people don’t know she was just as good, in my opinion, then as she is now. I’m sure she would disagree with that, but she was good.
But she would play for the offertory. We couldn’t get her to do a solo in the concert, but she would play the offertory. After the offertory, people didn’t really want to hear us anymore. It was like, “We want to hear more of her,” and rightly so.
But we sang, we opened for the Cathedrals. That was back with Danny Funderburk and Mark Trammell and, of course, Glenn and George. Roger was the piano player. They walk out on stage. The first thing George says is he looks down at Kim and he says, “Would you like to travel with a bunch of old men?” The crowd, of course, just roars laughing. Roger jumps up from the piano and runs off the stage like he’s done, so it was funny.
Daniel Mount
Yeah, neat! Well, you mentioned in passing that you met your wife via all of this, through her father being head of the college and through traveling with her sister and her brother. How did you meet your wife? How did that all come about?
Ray Cragun
Well, you know, their family moved to Westfield as her dad took over the school, the leadership of the school. First time I met her was at a Lions Club because that’s where they had some type of dinner to introduce the new president. And for some reason, I don’t know why they decided to do it down at this Lions Club there in town. And I met her outside the front door of that building. It was my first time to meet her. And we dated for about three years and got married.
Daniel Mount
Neat! Okay, so as you were touring with Celebration, you were largely singing familiar, loved Southern Gospel songs, that kind of thing.
Ray Cragun
We did. A lot of the groups of that time had a lot of influence on us. And of course, we were young kids coming up. Nobody was sending us songs like happens in the Southern Gospel world. So we were singing other people’s songs. Cathedrals were probably one of the biggest influences on us, not the only. I mean, we liked a lot of the old groups. So yeah, a lot of Cathedral music.
Daniel Mount
So what were some of your favorite songs to sing in those days? What were some of the ones the audience most loved to hear you sing?
Ray Cragun
You know, there’s two songs that come to my mind. One was an old Imperials arrangement we did, “His Name Is Wonderful.” Mark did a fabulous job. It would just fit him perfectly to be a Jim Murray-type tenor on that song. We did a Cathedral song that probably became one of our staples through the years, which was “Telling the World About His Love,” which we just did on Kim’s Her Story recording, you know. We got back together and did that.
But those are two songs that stand out. Man, there were a bunch of them, and a lot of great arrangements. Kim was our arranger, you know. It’d be funny, we’d all get together and say, “We’ve got to arrange a song today,” but we basically just did whatever she told us because she could do it better than any of us could ever think about.
Daniel Mount
Yeah. Well, while we’re talking about it, what was it like to get the group back together 30, 40 years later and do that video with Kim?
Ray Cragun
It’s a lot of fun. It’s a lot of fun. We spent a lot of time together through the years. So, you know, it’s not like we have to break the ice or anything. We’re like family. Dan Coy, the lead singer – my first church to pastor was the church where he attended, where he grew up. And his parents are like family to ours.
And so, you know, it’s just a treasure. We can get together and we can do something in a moment’s notice, you know. Our voices have changed, you know? Dan could actually sing bass probably about as good as I can now, but he managed to get his lead singing done, you know? But things change through the years.
Daniel Mount
Mm-hmm. Hmm. Yeah. So he’s pastoring. What are all the different members of that group doing today? So he’s pastoring and Mark is on the road, I think, full time.
Ray Cragun
Mark’s on the road full time. Dan was pastoring. I think actually he may be working for Jeff Keaton, my brother-in-law that was the baritone, who was president of RenewANation. And so I think he might be working for him now.
Daniel Mount
Yeah. Okay, and for those who are listening who might not be super familiar, what is that ministry, the RenewANation ministry?
Ray Cragun
RenewANation, in a nutshell, has to do with renewing the worldview of our nation. And it focuses primarily on the youth and providing young people with Christian education is the goal. And so they’re focused on helping fledgling Christian schools to get their feet under them. They also sponsor children who can’t afford tuition, in a lot of cases, doing whatever they can to help change the worldview. Because the worldview, you know, is largely shaped by what children are taught in public school or universities and that sort of thing. So they’re trying to level that playing field and put a lot of Christian influence out there.
Daniel Mount
Mm-hmm. Yes. So did you go from college directly into pastoring, a pastoral role?
Ray Cragun
I basically went from the school there, yes. I was working in public relations and got a call to pastor a church in Gas City, Indiana. And that was my first pastorate. So I went from there down to Louisiana. I pastored a while in Oklahoma City. But that pretty much covers the bases for around 25 years of pastoring, I guess.
Daniel Mount
Did you go directly into a senior pastor role, or did you do like an associate or music pastor or something like that role first?
Ray Cragun
It was senior pastor. My first church was a small church, and they really couldn’t afford a senior pastor, a full-time pastor. So in some ways, I wish I had been an associate, but that’s kind of the way it is. A lot of times, little small churches, they need a pastor really bad. They’ll throw the green guys in there that don’t know what’s up or down, you know, and you tread water and try to learn the hard way. But that’s kind of the way it was for me.
Daniel Mount
I get it, I get it. Okay. So were you pretty focused on the preaching and one-on-one ministry roles, or in the structure of your churches, did you also play a fair amount of role in setting a musical direction for the churches you were in?
Ray Cragun
You know, that changed through the years. I came in green, I guess, as I said. So I focused primarily on preaching and tried to be a nice young man and behave and let the church do what it had done. Later in my ministry, maybe it could rightly be said I became more of a micromanager. And I took more leadership in various facets of the church, especially in the music, you know, because I like, as a pastor, to build a service toward the sermon. And so I would try to cast my influence on the music and the worship. Not doing it all, but at least trying to direct the direction things would go.
Daniel Mount
Neat! And were your wife and children involved in the music of the church also?
Ray Cragun
They were. My wife played the piano frequently. We would sing specials, you know, frequently. And it’s where my kids got their start singing. And when they got old enough to sing, I’d put them in the special music department every chance I got, you know, without wearing them out. I didn’t want to get them to where they hated doing it because they felt like they were always preparing, you know. But I was blessed with some kids that could sing, and so why not use them?
Daniel Mount
How many children and how many grandchildren do you have? I’ve heard how many children you have, just can’t remember at this moment.
Ray Cragun
We have six children. We have four boys, two girls. On the grandkids, we have ten; no, we have eleven. My youngest daughter, just had one. I forget to add him sometimes.
Daniel Mount
Okay. Congratulations!
So I guess I’m curious both about the church’s doctrinal focuses, but also what styles of music you did. So I’ll start with the doctrine. Was this – you’ve mentioned Pilgrim Holiness in passing – was that like the name of this type of church, or was it some other name?
Ray Cragun
Most of my years pastoring was an inter-denominational church in Louisiana. Having said that, of course, they did have theological persuasions. If you’re familiar with the Nazarene Church, it would be very similar, probably. Most of the church affiliation that we had, I was a part of a group called the Bible Methodist way back then. And actually that was my first church that I pastored. It was a Bible Methodist church. So very similar to the Nazarenes.
Daniel Mount
The main Christian university within about an hour, hour and a half of where I am is Mount Vernon Nazarene. I didn’t end up going there myself, but a number of my friends who wanted to go to Christian college and still stay in the general region, the Nazarene college was like the option. So yeah, a little familiarity.
And then stylistically, do your churches do praise and worship, hymns, some Southern Gospel, or just a variety in the mixture?
Ray Cragun
Okay. Yeah, the Praise & Worship hymnal, along with a chorus book, you know, old school stuff for a lot of people. We would run kind of behind the times, maybe five years, where a lot of churches were singing whatever CCM had coming out immediately. We might eventually learn it and pick it up five, 10 years later. So yeah.
Daniel Mount
That’s really not all that bad. It’s not sinful for a church to be the first church to test out a new song, but it’s also not a bad idea to see which songs have some staying power. The songs that have staying power tend to be pretty good songs.
Ray Cragun
I agree. And your congregation tends to be more familiar after a song’s been around, and you get more participation, which I like.
Daniel Mount
Yeah, that always helps. \Do you think you’d have probably stayed your life in a pastoral role if Jordan hadn’t started a family group?
Ray Cragun
You know, that was the plan.
It’s interesting because early on, I had opportunities to sing. I’ll never forget, I was in accelerated Christian education, they call it ACE, through my high school years and got involved in – they would have these contests every year. I forget what they call them now, but you could choose some field, athletics or music was what I did, and go enter and be a contestant.
And I entered in as a soloist. I’ll never forget, I won state in Indiana one year and then went to nationals, which was held in Texas. I think I came in third there. But I got my first invitation to sing with a group called the Agape Players. They were performing for ACE that year. And I ended up not accepting that job.
And then, as I mentioned, James Blackwood tried to get me to school in music. You know, things I really wanted to do.
And I look back now at all of that. I kind of wonder how my life would have gone. It probably would have obviously gone a different direction in many ways. You know, would I have met my wife? I don’t know what would have happened. But I think the Lord had His hand, obviously, on my life, and my kids ended up being raised with a dad at home, which I think is a plus. You know, it’s not always possible, I know, in some cases, but it’s a plus. They grew up, for the most part, in Louisiana, back in a pine forest, you know, and isolated, primarily parental influence. And I credit that a lot to them being Christians today. A lot of kids don’t survive the influences of public school and so forth.
So I’m thankful for the direction that my life did go. But when I was in Louisiana, my kids had pretty much left, gotten married, gone to Bible college, gone to do whatever, you know. And Jordan was in Idaho singing with Liberty Quartet. I moved to Ohio.
I didn’t have any house; I’d pastored all my life, so I’d lived in a parsonage, you know, no place to go. And my brother-in-law, Phil, he said, “Hey, I got a big basement. You can come and stay in there until you figure out where you’re gonna go.”
And so that’s what I did. Preached some trial sermons various places. Got calls, I think, everywhere we went. But my wife and I would leave and say, “You know, just don’t really feel like this is the place, you know, the Lord wants us.” And so we were continuing down that path and thought, you know, eventually the Lord will open the door that we’re supposed to walk through.
And about that time, Jordan left Idaho and he moved to Ohio. And it didn’t take him long to say, “You know, Dad, I think I know what the Lord wants us to do.” And I hadn’t found a church yet, and he had just left. He was actually selling flagpoles to make a living, because he wasn’t traveling with Liberty, and he was actually making a killing doing that. But that’s not what he wanted to do, you know. And so he brought up the idea of starting the group. And I said, “You know, Jordan, if it’s really of God, he’s going to have to prove that to me.” And well, I could tell a lot of stories of how He undeniably did just that. And so here we are.
Daniel Mount
Well, if you don’t mind, I’d love to hear a story or two about how God nudged you in that direction and confirmed that you were going the right direction. That would be really cool to hear.
Ray Cragun
Well, you know, it was actually several things that happened that just brought confirmation to my heart. One was I was not comfortable any place that we went to, what we called trial sermons, you know, to pastor. That was one. It’s like, well, nothing’s opening up here that I feel comfortable with.
The second thing that happened was Jordan was moving forward with starting a group. And he had money to start a very basic album, you know. And he kind of spent money doing several things that he needed to do to get a group off the ground. He didn’t have a whole lot of money left, just to be honest. Had a little money left, and he went to a sound shop here in town and said, “I need a sound system, you know. What can I buy with this?”
Anyway, long story short, the fella that owned the sound shop, he basically put him off at the moment. Called him up later, and he said, “You know, we went onto your website,” which Jordan had already established. And when you went onto our website, there was a song that we were singing because we had already made an album. One of the songs was on there in rotation. It would just play over and over. And the song was titled “I Want to Be a Servant.” And he said, “I was listening to that song, and the Lord told me” – and I get emotional when I talk about it – “but He said, the Lord told me to be a servant to you all.”
So he calls us back into his shop and put together for us about, I think back then – this is 13 years ago – about $23,000 worth of sound equipment. Maybe not the best one on the road, but it was far more than we had money to pay for. And he gave it to us. And that was confirmation.
We had nothing really to travel in much. We had a van that Jordan was selling flagpoles out of. Jordan found a diesel pusher down in Florida, I think it was. And so he decided, well, we’ll go buy this diesel pusher and that’s what we’ll use. It was a nice old motor home, basically what it was.
And he was getting ready to go down. He bought his plane ticket, and the guy called him the morning before he was to fly out. He said, “When you come, don’t worry about bringing money,” basically is what he said. He said, “The Lord has made it very clear to me, I am to give you this coach.” And it just totally blew us away. And that’s what we traveled in up until COVID. During COVID, we sold it because it was an older coach, though it was still running great. But that’s just a couple of stories, confirmations. There’s many others, donors that came through, that just made things happen for us, you know. And God’s been good.
Daniel Mount
Neat! I think I heard Jordan mention in passing that you actually played guitar once in a while for a while with the group. Am I remembering that correctly?
Ray Cragun
Not really with the group. There may be a few times where I picked up a bass if my wife was on the road with us, for example, and I may have just accompanied her on a song or something. But arthritis has… I played a guitar in my childhood days. I was not an accomplished guitarist. I played in church as a kid growing up in kind of a Johnny Cash-style guitar. Just nothing great. But arthritis has kind of taken that away from me.
Daniel Mount
I’m sorry to hear that. So when your wife came on the road, she’d play piano sometimes with you all.
Ray Cragun
You know, when we could talk her into it. A lot of people know that she is Kim’s sister, and so they have high expectations. And she doesn’t profess to be a Kim Collingsworth. So it’s kind of hard to get her to play. But every once in while, she’ll do it, and we’ll just kind of gather around the piano and do a song and say it’s kind of like it was when the kids were growing up and do something that we did back then.
Daniel Mount
Neat! Well, you know, I get that. That makes sense. If you have a sibling who is perfect pitch, the level of talent that Kim has – I can see where that would be intimidating where another sibling who can play piano also, would feel pressure stepping on stage. That’d be a lot of pressure, having Kim as a sibling. I can see that.
Ray Cragun
Yeah, actually, you know, it’s funny because all the sisters can play the piano. Kim, obviously, I would have to say is no doubt the best. But her youngest sister is a tremendous piano player. The oldest sister, Sandy, is a tremendous piano player. And my wife and Becky also play the piano, you know. And a lot of that came about through the pastoral work. Sometimes you just got to do what you got to do, and they were willing to do it. And so they all play.
Daniel Mount
Exactly. What are some of the favorite songs you’ve recorded and sung with the Craguns through the years? Whether they feature you, feature somebody else, what are some of the ones that have meant the most to you?
Ray Cragun
Wow. You know, one of my favorite songs, because I loved it when I was a kid, was back on our second album that we ever made. It’s called The Power of Praise.
Daniel Mount
Which is the oldest one that’s on streaming.
Ray Cragun
That’s correct. And actually, one of my favorite albums to do songs off of – you know, we don’t do a lot off of it anymore. Probably we should. But the song titled “The Brush,” I love that song. Love that song. It’s an old song.
I have to mention one of the songs off our newest album. It’s a Gaither song, but “My Faith Still Holds.” There’s something about when that song starts up, and I have to hand it to Wayne Haun. The way he built the introduction of the song is just so inspirational – its beginning and it never stops. But that song has always meant so much to me, and to be able to sing it now, love it.
Daniel Mount
Yes, that’s a good song. It is. I also really like, speaking of the newest album, your version of “But for the Grace of God.” I really like how you deliver that song, too.
Ray Cragun
Well, thank you. That’s an old one too. But wow, the lyrics are awesome.
Daniel Mount
They are.
Okay, here’s a question down a whole different line. I was thinking that there are very few people in a position like you in this regard that I could ask this question to, so why not? It’s probably a blessing in many ways to travel with several of your grandchildren and get to spend a lot of time with them. But then I’m sure it’s also a challenge because you’re on the road so many dates a year to keep up with your other grandchildren. How do you balance that?
Ray Cragun
Wow. You don’t. I’ll just be honest with you, you don’t. I’ll just be real. Yeah, that’s probably the biggest regret I have. My wife, she can travel with us quite a bit if she wants to, and she does from time to time. So that’s nice. My grandkids that are not in the group, you know, they can’t. And so I get to see them every once in a while, FaceTime them. FaceTimed one of them tonight just a little earlier. But yeah, I grow older and hope they know me when they grow up, after I’m dead and gone, you know, because my kids are scattered around.
One of my boys, Matthew, just moved and accepted a pastoral role in Florida. I have a daughter, her family is in Virginia. Obviously Savannah, who used to sing in the group, she’s still here at home and I get to see the baby frequently. Yeah, that’s a tough one. And great observation on your part because if there’s any pain in what I do, that’s probably it.
Daniel Mount
Yeah, definitely.
Well, just turning it in the other direction, what are some of the biggest blessings you’ve had in your years traveling on the road in music ministry? People who are moved by a song, ministry opportunities, whatever it might be, what are some of the highlights that might come to mind?
Ray Cragun
You know, I think the greatest highlight is – and it’s tough to say this because you never can measure what God is doing in a given concert, for instance, by what you see. But as humans, we only know what we see, you know? And singing every night, there is always a song or two that you can just see visibly is moving hearts, and water is in the eye and the people are praising the Lord or whatever. That, I think, is one of the biggest blessings.
The other are the reports that we get actually from around the world. Our music that’s recorded, that people listen to, they may never come to a concert. There was one lady that she was raising her grandchildren. She was up in years actually, but still raising her grandchildren. But she put them to bed every night listening to our music. And I thought, wow, what an honor. And, you know, our goal is to minister, and you just never know exactly how your ministry is being exacted out. But those are some of the greatest blessings to me, to get those reports. And of course, it’s a great blessing to travel with your family.
Daniel Mount
Yeah. You know, it’s like the parable of the sower who went out to sow. The kind of ministry you’re in, it can be really hard to see the fruit because you’re not always back at the same location ever again, or even if you are, it might be a year or two. You’re out there sowing the seed, but it can definitely be hard to see the harvest sometimes.
Ray Cragun
It can be. It can be. But it’s encouraging when you do see it. We were doing a concert not too long ago, and I don’t even remember what state we were in. And there was a lady that had been brought. The people who brought her knew the circumstances that she was in. But we didn’t know until we started singing.
And we share the Gospel every concert that we possibly can. And we got down to that part, and this particular lady that we had noticed earlier on in the concert, just very strange acting, was getting very agitated as Jordan was sharing the gospel, and started trying to crawl over the pew. People around her were holding her down, and we knew something spiritual was going on, either spiritual or mental at that point, you know. We didn’t know for sure.
It ended up, there was a lady that was actually, by her own family’s acknowledgement, said that she was demon-possessed. And we had the opportunity to lead her to the Lord and to pray with her. It was kind of a long, drawn-out process, if you’ve ever been through that. But they came to me because there was no pastor at the church. They were in between pastors, and there were these lay people and they didn’t know what to do with this situation. And they knew I had been a pastor, and they were like, “You’ve got to do something,” you know? And wow, that was quite an experience. But it’s kind of encouraging when you know you’re making the devil mad, you know? That’s what it’s all about.
Daniel Mount
Yeah. Definitely. Definitely, it is. When the Craguns sing their last song, whether they retire at such a time as you’re still in the group or years later, what’s the legacy you hope the Craguns leave behind?
Ray Cragun
I hope the legacy that we’ll leave behind is just simply the promise that Jordan made to the Lord, and he’s told this publicly. Maybe he has to you as well, because I know he’s been on your program before. But he promised the Lord, “If You’ll give me the platform, I will give You all the glory.”
And I think that any gospel group – and I have a lot of friends in gospel music, and I believe that that’s their desire as well, so I’m not trying to be pious and that we’re the only ones, you know – but I think if there’s any legacy that we want to leave behind, it is that this was a group who truly sang for the glory of God.
Music is forgotten for the most part. We’ll never be the best group. There’s amazing groups out there, and we’re just out there trying to do what we do, you know, and do it the best we can. But if we can be remembered for that, I think that we will accomplish the mission the Lord gave us.
Daniel Mount
Amen. That is so well said. All right, wrapping up, just want to tell your story as well as I can. Are there any questions I didn’t ask but should, anything you’d like to talk about that I might not have thought to ask about?
Ray Cragun
I can’t think of any. As far as questions to me, I do want to say I personally appreciate what you do. And you have a very unique way in showing a side of gospel artists that people in a particular concert setting will never see. And I think that’s huge, and I appreciate what you do. Thank you so much.
Daniel Mount
Thank you. Thank you, I really appreciate it. You know, I was very inspired by several other people. Dave Clark, who’s a great songwriter, and Dusty Wells with Daywind. They do a podcast. And Arthur Rice, used to be with the Kingdom Heirs, more or less retired now, but he used to do a podcast. There are several others I’ve listened to.
And, you know, I blogged about Southern Gospel years ago, and stepped back. I kind of felt like I said what I needed to say at that time. But after enough years just quietly enjoying the music and really enjoying those podcasts, I started to think about all the people who either I already knew or, in your case, who I wanted to get to know. And I was like, the other ones that are out there can’t tell every story. There are more people to talk to who are out there spreading the gospel through this music.
And I thought there are some stories I can tell that might not get told otherwise, and that was just what motivated me to give it a try.
Ray Cragun
Absolutely. I thought about you. We had the privilege of attending the first Homecoming, Gaither Homecoming. And I’m looking around at this – it was a huge group, maybe one of the biggest groups they’ve ever had. And I’m looking at some of these old-timers that are still there that I grew up listening to. Jim Murray was one of them, one of my heroes. And I got to talk with him a while, but I would love to be in your shoes and just interview him and then ask him a bunch of questions about the music over the years and all of that, you know. And there’s a lot of people that love to hear the stuff that you manage to drag out of artists, you know.
Daniel Mount
Thank you. Thank you. Yeah. I guess I’m just curious. I love to ask questions and learn more about people’s lives. That Gaither Homecoming, it was Denicia’s first weekend with you, wasn’t it?
Ray Cragun
It was, yes.
Daniel Mount
That’s quite a high-pressure introduction to do Homecoming your first weekend.
Ray Cragun
Yeah; she loved it, though. She was getting her picture with all these people she grew up listening to, you know. She was having a blast.
Daniel Mount
Great. Great. I am thankful that Bill Gaither has lived to the age he has and that he’s still doing the Homecomings. I think he kind of slowed the pace of recording them some years back, but I think he’s picked up and done a few these last few years. I do think it helps artists to have had that exposure. And there are some artists, such as your group, who either weren’t recording at all or were just getting started the last time, you know, 10, 15 years ago, when he was doing a Homecoming or two every year. And I’m glad that he got back into doing some of these videos to give some exposure to some of the artists who are a little newer on the scene who deserve to be heard.
Ray Cragun
Me too, yeah. We were very grateful for the opportunity that we had.
Daniel Mount
Yeah. All right. Well, people can keep up with the Craguns at thecraguns.com and on all the social media channels. Anything else you’d like to mention? And definitely listen to the new album, Steadfast Love. It’s a very, very strong album. Anything else you’d like to mention or promote?
Ray Cragun
Thank you so much. No, hey, we just want to say thank you to everybody who listens to this and also follows our music. And if you don’t follow Bandsintown, get on Bandsintown, follow the Craguns, and come and hear us. We’d love to worship with you when we’re close to you.
Daniel Mount
Sounds good. And I’ll be looking for an opportunity when you all are in my area sometime soon, hopefully. Thank you. Thank you.
And to the listener, I would say thank you for listening to Southern Gospel Journal. Keep up with the latest episodes on YouTube, Facebook, your favorite podcast platform, or on southerngospeljournal.com. Thank you for your time.
Ray Cragun
Thank you, Daniel.